Transcript
[00:00:00] Armen Melkonian: If we had unexpected guests, I would see my mom rushing to her purse, getting some cash, giving me, like, secretly cash and saying, 鈥淕o get some stuff for our guests, you know, to serve them, to make sure that they are happy and their needs are served.鈥�
[00:00:25] Matt Welle: Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another Matt Talks Hospitality. In this very special episode, I'm so, so thankful that Armen has joined this particular episode. Armen was born in Syria, and he grew up in an Armenian Orthodox Christian family. Due to the war and the rise of ISIS, and his sexual orientation, he was no longer safe in Syria. In January 2014, he fled to Lebanon in search of safety. However, Lebanon proved unsafe for him as an LGBT refugee, and it forced him to hide his identity. Through the UN refugee, UNHCR agency, the resettlement program in cooperation with the Dutch government, Armen was able to come to the Netherlands in 2015. Resettlement is designed for refugees who face danger even in the first country that they flee to. Today, Armen has built a new life in Amsterdam. He graduated from the Hotelschool The Hague and has now found work there as a student recruiter, where he is committed to making education more diverse and inclusive. He also sings in the Amsterdam Men's Chorus, which I listened to recently, and I thought it was such an amazing thing. And he's actively advocating for the rights of refugees and the LGBTQIA community for UNHCR. I invited Armen to share his remarkable story. Thank you for joining me today.
[00:01:43] Armen Melkonian: Thank you very much for having me. To be honest, I'm honored to be here and share, of course, my story with the listeners and with you as well.
[00:01:54] Matt Welle: So your life experience, like, the things you've gone through, you've experienced hospitality in many forms within your family, your culture, which is a very hospitable culture, during conflicts, displacement, now in education advocacy. What does hospitality mean to you?
[00:02:12] Armen Melkonian: To me, personally, hospitality means acknowledging one's needs and trying to cater to them, but at the same time, of course, catering to your own needs and wants, so, be in balance because if you are not in balance, if you are not catered, how are you supposed to help and serve the other or show hospitality to others?
[00:02:37] Matt Welle: I like that. So you're just saying I have to be balanced myself to be able to give hospitality to others, and that, like, finding that balance today has allowed you to now go into this profession?
[00:02:49] Armen Melkonian: Absolutely. Yeah. And, of course, again, acknowledging the needs, so sometimes, the needs are there, but people word it in a different way. So then, when you realize that, oh, they actually need this. They're saying something else, but they need this. So that's the talent that you have. That's the skill that you have to understand, okay, these people are talking about this; however, I know how to serve them, I know how to cater for them. That's actually the essence of it.
[00:03:14] Matt Welle: So I didn't grow up in Syria, but from what I've seen from a cultural aspect, it looks like hospitality is a deep-rooted cultural value. But what did hospitality look like in your upbringing?
[00:03:27] Armen Melkonian: This might sound very funny, a little bit funny story, actually, what I share from my family. Probably some of you can also relate to this. We grew up in a family in the sense that if we had unexpected guests, I would see my mom rushing to her purse, getting some cash, giving me like cash secretly and saying, 鈥淕o get some stuff for our guests, you know, to serve them, to make sure that they are happy and their needs are served.鈥� So, in other words is that we used to do our utmost, you know, to cater to our people. And that is really the root of, I would say, what we do in hospitality, but also that's what we did in Syria in the back.
[00:04:11] Matt Welle: Because we both studied at the same hotel school. I studied at the Hotelschool, a few more years ago than when you did, but there, obviously, hospitality is the heart of everything. Has your perception of hospitality changed in all these years since you left Syria and that original organic hospitality experience there, from what you're seeing now?
[00:04:33] Armen Melkonian: Yeah. I will go back a little bit to Syria, and then I will come with a quote that we use, especially, that's an Arabic one. And if you don't mind me saying it, so it says, al-j膩r qabl ad-d膩r, it literally means 鈥渢he neighbor before the hosts, before the house itself.鈥� So it comes from an idea that indeed, sometimes you have to serve your neighbors, so you have to serve your guests even if you know that you're gonna end up being hungry in the evening. So that's indeed the extent that the hospitality in our country used to go. I also used to work in hospitality back in Syria, and I remember this guest coming in saying, 鈥淥h, I went to a barber, and, like, I asked for a haircut, but they gave me a shoulder massage and a facial treatment and all that for, and they didn't wanna charge.鈥� And people were surprised because, you know, they're not used to this. But this was indeed how we, sometimes even at our personal cost, used to give things away and used to do things for others. And these are indeed the lessons that I learned when I got here. Okay. I can do that, but at some point, it will also cost me a lot. So, again, coming back to my definition of hospitality, I had to learn here to be stable myself, to learn how to indeed see if I'm strong enough already, if my needs are catered to be able to indeed help and support others as well. So that was a change for me. So, like, understanding that, okay, here are my limits and I still sometimes go, you know, out of my way to help people. And then I find out I put myself in difficult situations, and I have to come back from that. So that was the balance that I learned here.
[00:06:04] Matt Welle: But I think if I listed all the things you do outside of the work, you already do so much more than most people do in the country that we live in, where does that come from?
[00:06:16] Armen Melkonian: Yeah. Honestly, it was always a fire in me. When I was a kid, I was always against the unjust, and I always wanted things to be in the right way. Sometimes maybe, as a kid, I also didn't get, let's say, enough attention or enough, my needs weren't covered, let's say it that way. So that's why I was, like, I felt so unfair and so unjustice. And then there was always this kind of activist in me that they wanna make sure that everyone is happy, that make sure that everyone's needs are catered to. So, it never left me, honestly. It went throughout my journey to the Netherlands, even here. I realized that it's kind of also contagious. So the more I speak to people, kind of, people also get the point, and they also join my journey. So it helps. It really helps.
[00:07:04] Matt Welle: Would you be able to take us back to the moment you decided to leave Syria? That's probably the pivotal moment when you felt that it wasn't safe for you there anymore. How many years did you live there, thinking I am no longer safe? And what was the trigger for you to say, I need to take action. I need to take care of myself.
[00:07:25] Armen Melkonian: I lived, of course, most of my life in Syria, I can say still. And growing up again, we were in an Armenian community, like a kind of Armenian-sake bubble. We went to Armenian private schools. And also afterwards, I joined the university, which is a public university. There, everything was still okay. Of course, personally, I was finding out about myself and about my orientation, and that was kind of a journey that I was on. However, when our uncertainties started, the war, let's say, I will call it the civil war for now, that made things really a bit scary. At some point, it was outside of Aleppo, which is my hometown, and I was still going to my work and thinking, okay, this is horrible, but, yeah, life goes on. But at some point, when it started to be very heavy in Aleppo, even at some point, ISIS came in, and certain things started to become also personal. So it wasn't just a civil war in the country; it was, okay, this person is rich. Let's kidnap them. Let's ask for money. This person is, let's say, homosexual, and we know about it. So then, of course, there are certain punishments for that as well, which are very harsh. So this kind of put the fire underneath me. So I was like, okay, you know what, at this point, you're really not safe here, so I need to leave here. The first step was to look, where can I go? Where's the easiest exit that I can still be a little bit myself, but be at least in a safe country? And that was for me, Lebanon.
[00:08:57] Matt Welle: And did your family know that you were gay? Or they were not aware of that.
[00:09:02] Armen Melkonian: Yeah. Of course, not even like a Syrian because Syria, of course, is considered one of the countries that don't accept homosexuality illegally. Even coming from a Christian family that there are also very high values and norms. I was told to fit in the box. But of course, as I told you earlier, because of the fire in me, I couldn't just skip that in the box. And I was like, No, of course, I told my family, and I explained that this is not a choice. This is who I am. They didn't take it very easily at some point, but I lived like that for three years trying to, yeah, educate them, if I can use the word, and also my surroundings, my friends, my colleagues, because they all knew and they all loved me. But then once I made it very clear, things changed, and that's what makes it hurt, you know? Like, you always knew who I am, and you accepted me. But now that I announce it, nothing has changed. So, I lived like that for three years approximately, and then, of course, it was the moment when the war started. And, of course, I felt a little bit isolated because of my family, friends, and etcetera. So that was the right decision to make.
[00:10:08] Matt Welle: And in that moment when you said I need to get out, was it a moment of the whole family taking that decision? Or was it you saying I'm leaving and and like, what did that day look like?
[00:10:19] Armen Melkonian: Yeah. That's also a bit complicated story, but I will cut it short in the sense that my father also had an illness. He had cancer, and he was not being treated in Aleppo. So we all had to flee first from Aleppo to Damascus, which was relatively safer, we thought, and when he was cured, there was a moment for us to go back. And that's where I took the opportunity, even though before going to Damascus, I already packed a lot of stuff with me to Damascus. And my mom was like, 鈥淲e are going only for four months. What are you doing?鈥� I was like, well, 鈥淚'm gay, and we like to change our clothes very often. That's it.鈥� So I came up with excuses, but I knew that I was already gonna go to my own journey afterwards. I told them, and it was a bit of relief and disappointment at the same time, my mom was happy that I was gonna go and find my own journey, but on the other hand, they were also kind of sad and afraid that I might bring, you know, again shame on the family, but then in this case, outside of the country, somewhere else, etcetera. So it was a difficult situation, a difficult moment. So to be honest, I'm not gonna lie. I got smuggled in a car, with a taxi to Lebanon and throughout the way I was constantly crying. So, it was tough, very difficult.
[00:11:31] Matt Welle: So sorry. This is maybe a very鈥�
[00:11:32] Armen Melkonian: It鈥檚 okay.
[00:11:33] Matt Welle: Like, how does that work? You get smuggled across a border. How do you find someone who will smuggle you in? Like, what is that situation like?
[00:11:41] Armen Melkonian: Yeah. People find their ways, you know. Like, there are always people, of course, and no, yeah, that's a very scary part as well. Like my way, of course, we will cover up later on, was a bit safe way to come to the Netherlands, but going from Damascus to Lebanon was not that high stakes. So you're just two hours, with a car, and then you just have to go out, find the right person, pay them, and at the border, they would just, you know, make sure that they pay there as well.
[00:12:08] Matt Welle: Right. So the border guard might know that there's someone, but you just pay them off to get on board.
[00:12:11] Armen Melkonian: Of course. And, of course, they also make deals with the taxi drivers, for the drivers who bring people, you know, like, the more you pay, the more I let you go. And yeah, it was a business for them, but for us, it was like our lives being saved.
[00:12:24] Matt Welle: And you arrived in Lebanon, and then you realized that actually you're still in nature there because of your LGBTQIA identity. What was that period like for you?
[00:12:36] Armen Melkonian: Right. So normally, this is also for the listeners; people, when they flee, they choose a close country where the culture is a bit similar. The language is similar. The traditions are similar so that you don't feel, you know, like an alien. So I thought for me, okay, that will be Lebanon, it's gonna be the safe place. And I heard before that Lebanon is a little bit more open-minded, and they have these American universities there and, like, a lot of students, a lot of tourists, so then I will be accepted a little bit. The little I know, when I got there, the second week already, they made an attack on a bathhouse with the accusations that they might be queer activity, so they arrested everyone. So that was for me another wake-up call that, wait a minute, I'm not safe here either. And then, I reached out, of course, to UNHCR, and that is the United Nations High Commissioner of Refugees, to seek help, you know, I knew that they had some kind of a program that helps people to be resettled in different countries, safe countries. So I reached out there. And the moment I spoke to the first employee, it turned out to be an Armenian guy a. Uh, I already started to feel like the safe that safety of the, um, idea of, you know, you're talking to someone, you're being heard, you're being seen, uh, and somebody really acknowledges you and your problems. Uh, so that was already the first step of hope for me, to be honest.
[00:14:03] Matt Welle: And then you ended up in The Netherlands, but I'm sure that there was a whole process that led up into that resettlement. Can you just talk us through how that all works?
[00:14:11] Armen Melkonian: Right. So once you apply, of course, um, to one of the centers, uh, and they are mostly in host country. So Lebanon is one of the host countries indeed. Then you can apply and, uh, it takes a lot of time. It takes a year or two maybe until they do to your interviews, uh, and do background check. And this program, of course, just to come back to it, is meant for vulnerable refugees. Uh, so that means people with LGBTQ background or, um, single moms with kids or even people you know, heavily sick people, um, even even political refugees. So these get a second chance, uh, in a sense of they get resettlement to another safe country in a safe way. And The Netherlands was one of the countries that used to take 500 resettles every year. However, recently, because of the political changes, it changed to 200 only. Um, but we're still, yeah, focusing on the positive. So, yeah, I've been selected to be part of this program, and then I've done couple of interviews with them. Uh, and once they saw that I'm eligible, of course, then indeed, um, I was called. That was also one funny moment when they tell me, yeah, The Netherlands has chose you. So you don't get to choose a country, of course. You get chosen by a country. And I was like, where is The Netherlands? Um, and then I went home and I started to Google some things, and then I found out it's seven meter below sea level. I can't even swim. Um, they eat croquette. It doesn't look very appealing, but I hope it's tasty. Things like that. So, you know, like yeah. Exactly. So, um, I yeah. I did some research, but, of course, for me, there was, um, the most important thing was that I knew that I was going somewhere safe. Uh, and, of course, I also find out that The Netherlands was the first country who accepted gay marriage. So I was like, yeah. So I wanna be there, you know.
[00:15:52] Matt Welle: And you left your family behind, I'm assuming. So how often do you still speak or see them?
[00:15:58] Armen Melkonian: Yeah. Indeed, I left them behind, uh, and the first period was very difficult, uh, because they were still kind of, uh, I I wouldn't say bullying, but make giving me a hard time in a sense of, uh, come to your senses, um, think of your future, this is not you, this is just a phase, etcetera, etcetera. So to protect myself for a year or two, maybe I kind of, um, cut the relation, like, uh, I almost blocked them. And then afterwards, when I was in The Netherlands, when, uh, I had my own, uh, peace in mind, then I started to rebuild this connection. And, of course, currently, uh, we are in a very good relation, my family. Great.
[00:16:35] Matt Welle: Good. I'm happy to hear that.
[00:16:36] Armen Melkonian: Thank you.
[00:16:37] Matt Welle: So you landed in The Netherlands. I'm sure the weather was different, like, than what you're used to. But can you talk me through what that first day was like and how you then start to rebuild a life because you come with nothing to this country? And how does that process go build building a life in the last ten years?
[00:16:56] Armen Melkonian: Right. And you took my word. I was gonna say I arrived in December. So that was not a good
[00:17:01] Matt Welle: month to
[00:17:02] Armen Melkonian: be alive. No. It was horrible. It was so dark and rainy and nonstop rain. Um, and I got placed in Zaandam. It's a nice city north of Amsterdam. Um, and, um, yeah, you get your apartment if you're a resettled refugee, of course. If you come, uh, with the UNHCR program, then indeed you get your pro, uh, your apartment upon arrival. And, yeah, you get in and, of course, I felt very safe. I was like, okay. This is my new place. You know? This is my new home. And I was so grateful. And there was a lot of guidance and support from, of course, UNHCR, but also the Dutch Refugee Council, Loechlinburg. But what it was difficult, it was especially I came alone, um, that I felt a bit lonely in the beginning. And, uh, and again, throughout these dark days, um, it doesn't help. And, um, um, yeah, it was a tough beginning, to be honest.
[00:17:50] Matt Welle: I can imagine. So how do you approach getting a social life? Like what was the first time you made a friend in The Netherlands?
[00:17:59] Armen Melkonian: Right. So, um, I am somebody who also likes to take initiatives. First of all, we had to, of course, learn the language. So we started language school. That was the first circle already for me to meet new people. And also some expats, they were also on the same course that they wanted to learn the language. It was also fun to meet, you know, internationals to be in the class with them. So that was nice. And, of course, I love to sing. So I reach out to, um, I went and searched and reach out to, uh, Amsterdam gave me as chorus, and they were just starting. So that was actually that first season. Um, and they said, yeah. Of course, we can accept you. So then I joined, and I right away made, uh, twenty, twenty five new friends. I also started to volunteer, uh, some places. Like, I started to volunteer in in Dutch Refugee Council as a talk interpreter, and then it helped me to network to other people from UNHCR, and then they also gave me some volunteer work. And this way, my network got a little bit bigger. And on the other hand, of course, um, this is on a queer aspect. If you come to a very free country, sometimes also the the other extremes also doesn't help. So in the beginning, I was like, I didn't dare to go out. I I felt like a little bit okay. I don't know what to expect. Uh, I don't know what's there. So, um, I, yeah, I locked myself away from the whole gay scene. But later on, by meeting friends indeed and, uh, yeah, going to the scene to the right way, you know, uh, by the help of, uh, yeah, some nice men from the course, that was actually the right way to do so. And that helped a lot.
[00:19:25] Matt Welle: Because because if you look at, um, Europe and the influx of refugees we're seeing in Europe, especially in the media, you see a lot of negative sentiments around it. Have you experienced that also in your personal life or actually you've had mostly really positive experiences?
[00:19:39] Armen Melkonian: Not personally to me negative. I also choose to surround myself with, you know, nice people. I don't know if if I'm if I if that's a luxury or I don't know how to say, but I don't look for troubles, and I never experienced that. But I did indeed see people who experienced that, and I always stood up for them. And, uh, and it's sad because people don't don't understand the fact behind it that it is a choice. It is a choice that we make, and the choice is very tough, either leaving everything that you build all this life behind you and go to a new country or literally die. So they don't understand if they put this- because
[00:20:16] Matt Welle: they're not choices. Yeah.
[00:20:17] Armen Melkonian: This is not choices. Well, it's still a choice. You know, some people chose to stay behind because that's too risky for them to flee, but then, yeah, you will live the day to day. You would never know if you're gonna wake up tomorrow or so. Yeah. But it's it yeah. I wish that people understand that it is not a choice. We are here because we are unsafe in our countries. And Yeah. And how did unsafety started? That's another story. And how much these people here had impact on that, that's also another story I don't wanna go. But, like, it's all come hand in hand. So, um, instead of pointing fingers, let's open our arms. I would say that's my call for now.
[00:20:55] Matt Welle: Yeah. Like, I think that's a good bridge to hospitality. You've studied hotel management, so now you are an expert in hospitality. Like, what role can hospitality in a human sense play in supporting newcomers and refugees coming in to the country after that like, now newcomers that were coming in? What would you do differently in that process?
[00:21:12] Armen Melkonian: If you allow me read the UNHCR definition of hospitality, um, so they use, of course, the original, uh, Latin word. So they say it comes from the word hospice, meaning both guest and host. It reflects a timeless principle of mutual care and respect to offer safety, warmth, and dignity to those who arrive at your door. Long before hospitality became an industry, it was human instinct to welcome the stranger and create connection. And to be honest, when I add to that, what we can do is just see these people. The toughest thing that I had when I went to the supermarket in that winter time, when I arrived and came back home and I felt like I was invisible. People don't say hi, people don't know who I am. Uh, I'm in a different country. And sometimes they saw that I struggle by reading certain things or understanding how things work, but there was no help. Yeah. So that really small start, we can start from there. Like just understand others and see them, just see them as human beings. And, of course, um, then it can grow of including them into your families, inviting them for dinner or other way around. Let's cook together. You know? Like, certain things that hospitality includes, that's really the warmth of it. And then we can go think bigger, of course. How can we include them in our business? How can we give these talented people? People who have hospitality in their really roots. How can in their course, how can we support them? How can we include them and make our hospitality industry even richer? And finally, of course, uh, and I think that happens sometimes in in Amsterdam that there were a lot of, of, uh, and also different cities. Uh, a lot of hotels started to, uh, welcome, uh, the newcomers or refugees, uh, as, like, centers to, uh, welcome them. And that was really nice. So, uh, that was a moment that's better than actually sleeping in tents. Literally, there were when I arrived, there was, like, tents in the park next to my home, and that was not a nice place, of course, but there was no other option. Now there are a lot of things that we can do as hospitality, but if we all just take it personally, a small scale and think of, okay, if I see someone, I will just help them or just greet them and and make them feel, you know, uh, home. And as big companies and big corporates, we can always look at, uh, for example, you, um, like UNHCR or the Dutch Refugee Council, and we see how we can support their, uh, act or their, um, actions that they need to take.
[00:23:28] Matt Welle: That's so good. Because you've experienced hospitality, I guess, in the humanitarian sector, um, by the way that you've you've come into The Netherlands, but also now in hospitality. And and do you see a connection between the two?
[00:23:40] Armen Melkonian: Absolutely. Um, to be honest, I also worked in Dutch advisory group, at this refugee advisory group for The Netherlands for for maybe two years, three years, that we collectively with some other, uh, resettled refugees, we have to think about better solutions of how we can even, uh, improve the process of the settlement. And most of the time when we were talking about hospitality, I was reflecting, oh my god. These are the things I learned at hotel school. And major points of it is how to clean the bed, how to, you know, clean, prepare the room, how to prepare the breakfast, how to pre you know, like, we do everything. We do all these things to cater our, uh, guests who come in. And the same thing was, uh, what we were thinking. Okay. These people are gonna come to this country. They don't know anyone. They don't know anything. How can we support them? How can we be, um, this, uh, yeah, group that helps them? Or how can we ask people to be involved in that? So there are a lot of things that, for example, the community engagement, the local integration, these are the things that, um, UNHCR is busy already, but that's what I also ask people to come and join and help doing that as well.
[00:24:45] Matt Welle: When, you know, you entered The Netherlands, you've now since become a strong advocate for LGBTQIA rights, refugee rights, um, and use all of these different platforms like UNHCR. What's inspired you to take on that role, and what sustains your motivation, especially in a time when, you know, the sentiment has shifted and and, you know, there are vocal voices saying, we don't want more refugees. We don't and and it it, you know, it's so difficult, I'm sure, to keep standing up and keep representing, but I'm, you know, I'm really curious in what drives your motivations.
[00:25:18] Armen Melkonian: Uh, it is indeed a difficult fight, um, and getting a bit more difficult at times. But as I mentioned earlier, so for me, when I see just injustice and I cannot just stand still and having platforms, having indeed, uh, organizations that also support you, like, stand behind you, then you feel kind of safe to express yourself to, uh, to talk about, hey. I don't accept this or, um, even to create awareness in our new, um, yeah, new generation, the youth. Because sometimes they take things for granted. A lot of people think that, okay, being gay in The Netherlands is okay, then, yeah, we get it, you know, as we born, and that's okay. But they don't they little they know that a lot of people had to fight for the rights that we have now. Uh, some people even died for the rights that we have now. And they just take it for granted. And that's what, uh, I try to get create awareness in the people that they are queer or they are for refugees, but they don't know how to act. So creating awareness is a step one, and that's kind of of course. And see the enthusiasm in them, uh, once they get, oh, so that's how it works. And that kind of gives me also the motivation and the need, you know, to do more. You know? Oh, I have a lot of work to do still. So that kind of comes hand in hand. And, also, um, yeah, that's that's on a personal aspect. When I hear people, uh, from my classroom even in back in Syria in high school, they reach out to me, say that because of you, because you dared, but once, you know, talk about your journey and share your journey, we now get to do get to be ourselves either in Syria or even different countries in Europe. You know? Like, you kind of took the torch for us and run, and then we started to follow. Now it sounds very heroic, but I don't wanna take that, you know. And this just the idea gives me, like, a lot of motivation to okay. So it's not for nothing. I'm doing it indeed for people, and people appreciate it. And I wanna do that, and I wanna do more.
[00:27:12] Matt Welle: And I love that people tell you that because I do think what you do is heroic and, um, you are at risk by putting your name out there, um, as a Syrian, um, you know, and and the way that you're talking about transparency and the LGBTQ community and fighting for inclusion. So I'm so glad that people tell you that the stuff you're doing is valuable, and I'm happy to see you continuing to do that.
[00:27:38] Armen Melkonian: Thank you. Appreciate it.
[00:27:40] Matt Welle: So if you look at your engagement with UNHCR and The Netherlands specifically, I think you talk a lot about inclusion and belonging. What's your advice to some of the organizations and communities here to make sure that they are more inclusive?
[00:27:53] Armen Melkonian: I think I also do a lot of presentation on the fact of the equity and equality. A lot of the time, uh, big corporate, uh, even I when I applied to, uh, certain jobs after graduating with high school, um, I faced with a lot of systematic or bureaucratic, uh, application systems that it's yeah. But we we do it equally. We do it for everyone. Everyone who applies to our jobs has to go through this, so we're not differentiating to or discriminating. Well, actually, you are because there's a difference between equality and equity. So the equity is giving people like us the tools that we need in order to succeed in a corp corporates or companies or or let our talent, uh, show. So if you say that, okay, this system works for everyone, but it's actually not because we didn't have the privileges, uh, by that that they had here by growing in the different schools, private schools, or just very great educational system here, etcetera, etcetera. Um, and for us, there's always hard work. We have to work really hard to prove ourselves. So I invite the big corporates or companies just, um, to work as hard as we do, uh, in order to include us, uh, into the, uh, yeah, big system or the, the community in, in big words.
[00:29:05] Matt Welle: When you think about the future, um, for yourself, the refugees, but also, you know, societies that you know, people that are listening to this, what are your hopes? Because sometimes it's easy to get dragged down into some of the negative motivations out there. But, actually, the ones that have a message of hope sometimes thrive long term. Like, what what do you hope for?
[00:29:29] Armen Melkonian: Yeah. True. I always say hope is a, um, very powerful word because, you know, it takes you throughout the difficult time. But even more powerful word is actually action. So, um, I call everyone to action to take some again, start small, see the other, see yourself. And I think, um, the fact that we are here now because we are kind of losing the hospitality spirit in ourselves, ourselves, uh, and that's why we landed in this political, if I may say, disaster. So if we open up a little bit more and be just true to ourselves, uh, a little bit more and, yeah, open arms, welcome everyone, and I think that will kind of, uh, make things easier for everyone.
[00:30:08] Matt Welle: Yeah. And I think it's often people like, yes, I would love to help, but I don't know where to begin. What would you suggest that people do? Because it is fair. They're like, I I wanna do something, but where would people start? What what's the thing you'd recommend?
[00:30:21] Armen Melkonian: Yeah. Again, as I mentioned, so most of the, uh, humanitarian organizations, including UNHCR and the Dutch Refugee Council, they all work on volunteer basis. There's a lot of volunteers that they're doing their job, even if it's, like, one hour or two hours. Um, so just go and sign up for this. And if you cannot sign up, let's say, if you don't have the time, I bet you have the money. So then go for and donate. Yeah. I don't know if it's allowed for me to say this, but there are always ways of helping and supporting, especially now that a lot of most of the funds actually are being cut by the other countries that they're mostly helping UNHCR. We need this. Uh, so, um, they can start anyhow, um, either Indeed, as I mentioned, acknowledging small scale your neighbors or going and volunteering or indeed, in case, donating as well.
[00:31:05] Matt Welle: If people have listened to the last thirty minutes, remember anything from our conversation today, what would you want that to be?
[00:31:11] Armen Melkonian: The importance of the second chance. By me coming here to this country, uh, I literally got a second chance of my life. Either I was gonna be doomed and ended in Syria, or I'm gonna be here, if I may say flourishing, and then being able to study, do my work, build a network and help others. Um, so believe in the second chances, give somebody a second chance and, um, and they might not disappoint you. So I think that will be my message.
[00:31:42] Matt Welle: I love that. Armin, thank you so much for everything you do, for sharing it so openly because it makes a difference. It doesn't feel sometimes like it probably when you do the the really hairy work, but, um, I think what you do is so impactful. And, um, thank you for sharing it so transparently.
[00:31:59] Armen Melkonian: Thank you very much for giving us the platform. I appreciate it. Thank you.
