Transcript
[00:00:00] Jan van H枚vell: Maybe it's a bit far-fetched, but what a hotel is doing is not that different from what we are doing. Okay? There's maybe not a sports library in a hotel, but a hotel is also a welcoming place.
[00:00:23] Matt Welle: Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another Matt Talks Hospitality. And in this Matt Talks Hospitality, I have a guest, Jan van H枚vell, and he's the founder of Klabu. Klabu builds clubhouses for refugees and funds them through social enterprise that now supports projects across multiple communities around the world. And I'm very honored to say that 榴莲视频 has partnered with Klabu this autumn, and 榴莲视频 is the main partner of Klabu Boa Vista Spirit Clubhouse in Brazil, which is Latin America's largest shelter for indigenous refugees and migrants. We'll talk deeper about what Klabu's work is and what's Jan's role in that mission that he's on, and hopefully, to understand really what the impact is that he's making. Thank you for joining me today.
[00:01:02] Jan van H枚vell: Thanks, Matt. Big pleasure.
[00:01:03] Matt Welle: Like, I've been looking forward to this because I saw you on the stage about a year ago, and you told the story of how you started Klabu. And at the end of your talk, you came off stage, and I immediately ran to you. And I said, like, can we have coffee? Can we just sit down? And can I get to know you? Because you felt like a very special person. So, I'm very excited that we got to partner with you. But can you maybe explain the story of how you went from an M&A lawyer, like, a mergers and acquisitions lawyer, so cold-hearted, like, suits kind of lawyer, to then actually founding something like Klabu?
[00:01:36] Jan van H枚vell: No. Absolutely. But before I say that, Matt, it was completely likewise. I mean, I was a guest speaker at this event. It was for the top 250 fastest-growing companies in the Netherlands, which we are absolutely not. And you are very humble, but you were the one who, with 榴莲视频, won this prize. And you were on stage and speaking about 榴莲视频, and I was amazed by, you know, how you spoke about diversity and inclusivity, and it resonated so much with me. And the moment after you left the stage, you came directly to me. I was like, whoa, you know, this is very, very special. So, I was very honored. And, indeed, we spoke a few times, and I think we developed a mutual understanding of what we are both doing and, also, I think, an admiration from my side, at least, for how you are. So, you know, it's a pleasure to have this conversation, and I'm very, you know, so happy.
[00:02:31] Matt Welle: And I think I do this also because we're so deeply passionate about something, and we run very, very different businesses. But at the end of it, we want to do good, and we wanna make the world a better place. And we see when injustice happens, and we have loud voices, and we're lucky to be born in the Netherlands, and you know, we have access to tools. But it was really because you spoke from the heart, and it just stands out because very few people do that today so publicly. So, that was really the thing that stood out for me.
[00:03:02] Jan van H枚vell: Yeah. Thanks so much for saying this. Makes me a bit emotional, but I think this is, at least, how I see the world and especially the area of work we are in. I mean, things that go from the heart, from passion, will last longest.
[00:03:19] Matt Welle: Yeah.
[00:03:20] Jan van H枚vell: Maybe to answer your question about, you know, what Klabu is and why I started this. I mean, I have to go back to my childhood, like, I was raised in different countries. My parents worked in the refugee world: my father, at the UN, my mother, everywhere we would go. She was an arts and crafts teacher. She started her own things. Actually, super entrepreneurial without making any money because that was not the point. But always working with children, and with mothers and creating things. And my father was really the lawyer, and refugees were, you know, part of our upbringing. But as a ward, as a person, you know, I didn't really understand what it was to work in this area. And when I was 18, I got an opportunity to do an internship at the UN in Ghana. And part of that internship was in a refugee camp in Buduburam, which now doesn't exist anymore. But at that time, there was a large influx of refugees from the Ivory Coast. And I was 18, a young guy, and because we had lived in French-speaking countries, I was able to translate stories. And when people arrive in a new country, they have to be interviewed to hear their story and to understand what kind of protection they need. And they asked me, the UN, like, hey, you speak French. These people come from the Ivory Coast. Can you help translate their stories? And I heard the most horrible stories from people who just fled, you know, the most, the stories that were so fresh because they just left everything behind. And, yeah, that made such a big impact on me hearing as a young boy who was, you know, raised very comfortably, but very aware of what was happening in the world. Yeah. I was hearing this. And then鈥�
[00:05:08] Matt Welle: What are the kind of stories that you heard? Because I think sometimes we just assume that these are people who have fled, but we don't understand the underlying human stories that are there. But could you share maybe one of those examples of what people told you when you're an 18-year-old boy speaking not even your native language, hearing these stories?
[00:05:26] Jan van H枚vell: I find it very hard to share because I will never be able to share the way the people share their own stories, but what I can recall is that there were stories. A woman, a young woman who was sitting there with her child, was telling a story of rape. And one of the very difficult things I found was that the officer at the UNHCR had to ask her a lot of details about what had happened and what was, you know, what was the place where you were? What did it look like? You know, details and facts. And the reason is, and I understand that, I understood that later, is that when there is a refugee influx, most people flee for very valid reasons, and they deserve protection. And there are people that also see an opportunity to build another life, which is very understandable. And then they also go to another country, but they are not the people who directly need the protection that others need. So, there is a distinction that needs to be made following the refugee convention if someone meets the criteria of being a refugee, which is a horrible term, but it is needed for legal reasons. So, I鈥�
[00:06:44] Matt Welle: Cause where is that border? How do you judge whether someone crosses over in that category?
[00:06:49] Jan van H枚vell: Yeah. That is the work of the UN, that they then look at the definition, and then they are going to consider, is this really someone who meets these criteria? I didn't become a UN officer, so I'm not able to answer this question in the best way possible. But from a human perspective, you know, I heard these stories, and I, for me at that moment, I was like, everybody deserves protection. If you hear this, it is so understandable that people are fleeing, and we should all welcome people who need support. And that came very, very deeply. I mean, that's stayed in my heart, but at the same time, I realized, okay, these people then have to rebuild a life. I mean, they receive protection, and then, most of them would go to the refugee camp, to Buduburam, and this place hosted tens of thousands of people, and there was not much there. The only bare survival, you know, the elements for bare survival were there. Yes. There was protection. There was water. There was shelter. There were schools, which is great, but not much more than that.
[00:08:05] Matt Welle: It's no life. Yeah.
[00:08:06] Jan van H枚vell: It's not a life. And these refugee camps exist everywhere around the world. These are the places where most people arrive, and then they're stuck there. And on average, nowadays, I read a research recently that the number was 17 years, and now on average, people stay there for 21 years. I mean, it is crazy if you think of it that children are born in refugee camps, and this is then their home, and the place where they鈥�
[00:08:40] Matt Welle: Why can鈥檛 they get out? Is there no opportunity for them to move on to build a life somewhere? Or鈥�
[00:08:46] Jan van H枚vell: There is. There are a few solutions. One is that they go back, and most people obviously want to go back. They want to go back to their homes, and that's called repatriation. However, that is often in practice very difficult, and it can take very, very many years until that is possible, because people have to realize that if they go back, probably they will not find their house how it was. Maybe someone else is living in that house. Maybe it doesn't exist anymore. And can they really rebuild their life? And, actually, when I was in Ghana, there was a repatriation of Liberians who had fled Charles Taylor, and they could go back because it was safe again. And I heard stories of them, you know, on the boat, seeing their homeland, starting to dance, and to sing. But the reality they will face later is that, you know, everything has to be rebuilt. So anyway, that's number one going back. Number two is integrating and receiving the nationality of the host country. And that is a solution for, well, the people in Ghana, many people, because Buduburam, as a refugee camp, doesn't exist anymore. They could integrate, and they could stay there, and there are many examples, which is fantastic, that hosting countries see that refugees add a lot of value to local economies, and then they can rebuild their lives. They can stay. They can work. That's the second solution. And then the third solution, I believe two weeks ago, you had Armen Melkonian, yeah, in your podcast, and he was resettled, right? He fled Syria to Lebanon. And then from Lebanon, he came to the Netherlands. And as he said, there are now only 200 people per year that the Netherlands takes. It used to be 500. Well, if you look at the total number of forcibly displaced people, there are 123 million now. So, that's the smallest group for people who really need it. So, it's amazing that that happens, but that doesn't happen very often. So, those are the three solutions, but the reality is that most people stay in the refugee situation for many, many years and sometimes, like in Palestine, for a lifetime.
[00:11:07] Matt Welle: So, you did that internship, then you went to work as a lawyer in Amsterdam South, which is where all the big law firms are. But then you ended up leaving that career after a couple of years. Can you just talk me through, because you've obviously had this deep passion for helping out. What made you go and do this corporate career for a couple of years?
[00:11:28] Jan van H枚vell: Well, I think when I was in that refugee camp and working with the UN, I admired the work, but I also realized that the UN route was not the one I wanted to take because I was too entrepreneurial. I am too entrepreneurial. And I think I would love to work with the UN, but not work at the UN. And I was not ready to understand what I would then do. And, I thought, well, you know, I need to learn. And the best way to learn, I really enjoy the concept of justice or gerechtigheid in Dutch, where, and I thought that, you know, studying law would help me a lot to understand my path better. So I studied law, and then I applied for a job. I thought, okay, let me learn how it is to work in the commercial world. I don't know that. So, I applied for a job at the law firm, got the job, became an M&A lawyer, did mergers and acquisitions for a few years, learned so much, you know, learned how it is to communicate, to organize, to persuade, so many things. And after four and a half years, I thought, okay, now is the moment that I have learned some skills, I'm ready to spread my wings a bit more, and I can take the leap. And then I decided to quit my job to find what my passion was because I didn't know that I would start Klabu directly. I had to take time off, working more than twelve hours per day at the law firm, you know, understanding really what I wanted to do. So, I took a year. I followed a screenwriting course to understand better, you know, in screenwriting, you have to understand, you know, what do you want to write about? What is the urgency in you? I love writing. I love stories. And that's when Klabu started coming.
[00:13:30] Matt Welle: So, I'm imagining as a lawyer, you make a nice income. And then you say goodbye to a nice income, a nice monthly, solid income to lead a life of uncertainty. Was that a difficult decision for you?
[00:13:43] Jan van H枚vell: The honest answer is no. And I think I was quite naive at that time. People called me brave. I thought, you know, this is just what I want to do. I have to say I thought about it. I was already DJing a lot as a hobby, but I thought, hey, there is business in the DJ scene for wedding parties and corporate parties. So, I started focusing on that. And within, you know, a few months, I could play at a lot of weddings. And at weddings, there are often people who come who are going to get married later. So, you know, one led to another, and I was DJing almost every weekend at parties and earning my income. Not a lot. I had to leave my flat, and I started living in a community house, a Van Hoop, in the Red Light District. You know, my life completely changed, but it was because I wanted it; I wanted to make this move. So, it never felt, yeah, it just felt natural.
[00:14:47] Matt Welle: Yeah. Because then you left that career, and then at some point, like, lightning struck, and you figured out, okay, this is what I want to do, like Klabu. I wanna build these clubhouses. But that doesn't just happen out of nothing. Like, what's the thing that inspired Klabu specifically?
[00:15:04] Jan van H枚vell: So the element that was still missing in my story about the refugee camp in Ghana is that, you know, at the end of my work at, at the end of the day after these interviews, I would go to the camp and I would bring my football and I would play with other people there, refugees, also locals, and we would play together. And for them, it was a big moment of joy, but honestly, for me as well, after a hard day of work. And that, when I quit my job, at Klabu or at De Brauw and realized what I really wanted to do, that came up, you know, that passion for the power of sports and that joy and that community that came together to play. And that was what I figured that I wanted to invest in. Like, can I invest more in making sports available for people who otherwise are in difficult circumstances and cannot play sports, because that was the situation in this camp? I was the one bringing my football, and without me, there was no football. So, I wanted to find a solution for the lack of sports opportunities in these refugee camps where people are stuck for many years, where there are so many young people. So, I wrote a proposal to someone I knew at the UN, and I said, 鈥淐an you give me a chance to go to a camp and to talk to the people and to find a solution for the lack of sports opportunities?鈥� And it was a good moment because the UN had invested in the refugee Olympic team. For the first time, refugees were allowed to participate at the games, at the Olympic Games. So, sports and refugees were becoming a bigger topic, but there was not a solution for the sports opportunities in refugee camps yet. So, they said, 鈥淲ell, you know, come to Kalobeyei in Kenya and see if you can talk to the people and come up with a solution.鈥� So, I went there. I put on my best suit because I thought I need to represent myself well, you know, I had some money with me, which you know, I had made as a lawyer and as a DJ. And I thought, okay, my goal is to find a solution for the lack of sports opportunities, and that's how Klabu started.
[00:17:25] Matt Welle: So, why do you think sports is so critical? Like, you know, basic life needs, like food and water and, like, health care are critical. So, what's the thing that sports does that you thought was so critical?
[00:17:41] Jan van H枚vell: Yeah. And I think, first of all, I fully agree that, you know, there needs to be a base for every person, you know, to live at least, you know, a life where you feel safe, where you have nutrition, water, and then come sports. But sports come, in my opinion, very quickly after those basic needs. And the reason is that for the human spirit to stay alive, for people to not lose hope and faith completely, there needs to be elements in life that go beyond survival. And those elements need to be moments of joy, of connection. And I think, you know, arts, music, but also sports are ways to keep that spirit and to have those moments of joy, which are so important to rebuild a life. And I think that is now more and more understood in the entire humanitarian world. It comes from far because sport was always seen as, oh, you know, that comes last. But more and more, we also see that sports is a form of protection, and it makes the refugee and host communities play together and start understanding each other. And host communities are not often very happy to see a large refugee influx because all these people, they also fish the fish in the lake, they also use the trees to make fires. But by understanding each other, and I think that applies in refugee camps far away, but also here in the Netherlands and any other country, when on a human level, you get to know each other after you've played a game of football, or other sport, I mean, that is where you can build bridges and you can build not alone, but also together.
[00:19:50] Matt Welle: That's so good. So, how did it go from Jan with the football in a refugee camp to the first clubhouse? Like, that became Klabu.
[00:19:58] Jan van H枚vell: Well, Klabu is really built, I mean, I am, you know, the one who started it, but it's built because of so many people being involved. And I understood very early that I had to listen to people who are in a situation and who know best what will work in that situation. Klabu started because I just asked people in Kalobeyei, in this refugee camp in Kenya, at that time, this is 2018, there were 36,000 refugees. Now it's almost 80,000. So, you see how fast a camp like that can grow. It was the latest camp. And, I went there, and I asked, you know, what are the needs? And what I found out is that there are organizations that build a small pitch, or there are organizations that do programming, which is great, but when they leave, there's nothing anymore because there's a lack of all the basic needs to play, a ball, a whistle, clothing, especially for girls, very important. So, all that infrastructure, all that clothing, all those materials, they are the big headache. Because often, you know, you give a few balls, and then two weeks later, they are broken. They are sold. They're gone. So, I found out that the biggest need was a solution for the lack of sports equipment and clothing. And how it started was listening to the people, okay, what can we do? Because there are 36,000 people. We can't give everybody a shirt, a ball and shoes. And they came up with the idea of a sports library, a place where people can borrow equipment. And we started piloting that from the house of Isaac, a Congolese refugee, and I gave him, you know, one of my phones that I used as a lawyer, and he would send me photos of people standing in line, queuing up to borrow equipment. And he was saying this is such a success, and that was when the word 鈥漦labu鈥� was born because 鈥渒labu鈥� means club in Swahili. And already, people are lining up to borrow equipment; that was their club. Because at the club, you can play sports, and because there's the equipment, you know, this is our 鈥渒labu鈥�. But he was also saying it's not safe because the materials have a value, and we need to build a clubhouse where people can come and which is safe. So, that's how the idea of a clubhouse started, a place where people can come to borrow their equipment. And, obviously, you know, we had, or I had, very little funding, so we thought, okay, what is the most sturdy and cheap option? Well, a container. So, we use a container, and if you go to our website, you'll see images of it. We painted it bright orange. We put Klabu on the back so that everybody knows this is where I can come to borrow my equipment. Isaac and his team started borrowing the equipment, and then later on, we added solar panels. We added television. We added music. We added Wi-Fi. And it really became a community hub where people not only come to borrow their equipment, but they also come together to watch games, to listen to music, to perform, to use Wi-Fi. There are people who come there to study online because that also happens in the refugee camp, to connect with their loved ones. We can see because we measure all the data. We can see the peaks of connection on Valentine's Day because everybody wants to connect with their loved ones at home, because some people, of course, they had to leave their families, which is very sad, but being able to be connected through the clubhouse. So, the idea of the clubhouse started by listening, and it grew also by listening, and that is Klabu, has been Klabu from the start until today.
[00:23:55] Matt Welle: So, when you think about the last couple of years, and when I think back to 榴莲视频, I was, there are real pivotal moments when I get chills about some of you know, it's like, oh, shit, this thing is real. Have you had those moments when you're like, wow, I'm making an impact? And what鈥檚 been one of those very specific moments when you stopped, like, oh, this is a thing, this is a real thing, where I鈥檓 having a real impact?
[00:24:19] Jan van H枚vell: Yeah. I'm very proud to say that I have those moments. We now have 10 clubhouses in refugee camps around the world. We have a lot of work to do because we want to be in 57. There are 57 of these places where people are staying longer than five years. So, we focus on those places where people are to stay and where it's a bit like, you know, and now, what is now going to happen. And then a clubhouse adds a lot of value because it makes people feel welcome, and people, you know, are rebuilding their lives there. And a few weeks ago, I was at our clubhouse in Mauritania, near the border of Mali. Well, Mauritania, you know, is in the middle of the desert. A lot of people don't know where this country is. I honestly also had to look it up when I heard, like, hey, there's a potential to go to this place. And there are 120,000 refugees there in this camp called Mbera. It's near the Mali border. A lot of people who had to flee Timbuktu, maybe you or others, have seen the movie Timbuktu, which is a beautiful movie. It won an Oscar, but it's also very difficult to see what happens to a beautiful city like that after, you know, jihadism takes over the entire place and people flee their homes because there's no life to be lived there anymore. Nobody has rights anymore. And they arrive in this place, Embera, in this refugee camp, and there's not much. But I was there, and the clubhouse is now operating for a year. And at 4 o鈥檆lock, when the sun rises, because it's very hot there, so the clubhouse opens in the morning and end of day, 4 to later in the evening. And at 4, when it opens, you see rows of people lining up and running inside, and the music turns on. And there was a local band, and maybe you know the music from Tinariwen, it's beautiful music. It's desert blues. And you listen to the music, and they were playing it there, not Tinariwen, but another band. And everybody runs, and they borrow the ball. They borrow shoes. A lot of girls play volleyball there. They also love boxing. It's not just football. We focus on the different sports that people like to play. We also focus on people who have disabilities. We have games that they can play. We focus on the elderly, who also participate. And you just see loads of people having a great time and looking into their eyes and then seeing what this means to them. You don't need words to realize that, you know, the power of community and sports can be so big. And I was walking around and filming and just for myself so that I could look it back afterwards and realized, like, and I don't do that often because I am, at the end of the day, also an entrepreneur, and I'm also focused on, okay, how can we optimize? How can we go further? And we have 123 million people who can also benefit from this, but taking that moment to realize, yeah, also made an impact on me, and, honestly, I'm then very proud. Yes.
[00:27:35] Matt Welle: Good. You should be. I think it's very special that you do. We partnered up. So 榴莲视频, we're very keen to get involved. But how do you pick partners? Because you need to also, you wanna make sure that whoever you partner with does it for the right intentions. But how do you evaluate partners?
[00:27:52] Jan van H枚vell: Well, we learned a lot by doing, honestly. I think at the start of Klabu, I would accept every support, you know, it's not easy to build a nonprofit. And bit by bit, I started understanding what is important to Klabu. And I have to mention, we have an amazing team in the refugee camps, the people who run the clubhouses, because, you know, we are based here in Amsterdam, but they do all the work. It's very community-driven. And here in Amsterdam, our team also consists of people, also with the refugee background, who really understand the spirit of Klabu and also, you know, hold each other accountable. And we have very, we have fantastic discussions as a small team about who are the partners that we really want to work with? And we are lucky that a lot of organizations reach out to us in one way or another, and that we are able to then, you know, define if it is a match or not. Well, in 90% or 95% of the cases, it is a match because the people who come to us, just like you came to me, have the same passion. They understand the power of hospitality, of community, they understand the power of sports, of connection, and then, you know, almost always it makes sense. There are also cases where it makes less sense, and that is especially when we see that organizations want to team up for other reasons than humanitarian reasons. If it's not impact first, because I believe鈥�
[00:29:32] Matt Welle: Have you ever said no to a partner?
[00:29:34] Jan van H枚vell: Yeah. There's one case, and it was also NRC, the Dutch newspaper wrote about it. We got a big offer from an organization that was Saudi-funded, and it was very difficult because it's not by definition that we would say no to an organization that is Saudi-funded. But at the end of the day, we just couldn't make it work. And I think that, you know, the way they wanted to approach the partnership and the way we wanted to do it was too far from each other, but the offer we received was, you know, many millions. And I have to tell you, you know, I still dream a lot about many millions.
[00:30:19] Matt Welle: And then imagine how hard of us to walk away from that.
[00:30:22] Jan van H枚vell: Yeah. Because it can make such an impact. We could do so many clubhouses. We could pay a team, you know, things that it took me three years to even pay for one salary. And DJing in the weekends was nice at the start, but after a while, you don't want to keep doing that. So, having these kinds of offers is amazing, but also sometimes can be very difficult. And I think if people want to read about it, and you speak Dutch, or you can translate, you can look it up, NRC and Klabu, and you will find the entire article. It's about the dilemma.
[00:30:54] Matt Welle: How will the partnership with 榴莲视频 look like? What does that mean in practice?
[00:30:59] Jan van H枚vell: Yeah. So our dream partnerships, just like with 榴莲视频, are the ones that really connect to one clubhouse or more clubhouses and that really enable us to set up and run a clubhouse so that people in a camp can enjoy the benefits of sports and community. And with 榴莲视频, we chose to focus on a shelter in Brazil, in Boa Vista, very close to the Venezuela border. Well, we all know what's happening in Venezuela, and it can get even worse, so we're prepared for that. There has been a huge influx of refugees from Venezuela, and some go to cities, but also a lot stay in shelters. And the shelter we focus on hosts indigenous Venezuelan people who used to live on the water, the Warao, especially. And they had to flee their homes, and they are now in a shelter, and they are staying there. It's not their home. They don't feel at home. But with Klabu and with 榴莲视频, we are doing our best to make them feel a bit more at home. And I think, you know, with 榴莲视频, we are able to fund this entire clubhouse for the coming three years. Our goal is, after three years, to be able to hand it over to our local partner so that they can then take over and they can continue the project, and that allows us to also create space for other projects.
[00:32:34] Matt Welle: Nice. If there are hoteliers listening to this, because my audience is mostly hoteliers who are looking to be inspired for their hotels. But if hotels want to do the right thing and want to give back in some way, how can they partner or how can they support Klabu best?
[00:32:50] Jan van H枚vell: I think there's a big, big opportunity in sharing the message of what we are doing with Klabu also through hotels. So, in a way, and maybe it's a bit far-fetched, but what a hotel is doing is not that different from what we are doing. Okay. There's maybe not a sports library in a hotel, but a hotel is also a welcoming place. It's a place where people need to feel at home, and feel good, and feel that they belong there. And that's what we also try to do with clubhouses, places where people who are away from their homes do feel at home. And I think if hotels would see an opportunity to work with us on telling this story, maybe teaming up even through 榴莲视频 and, you know, connecting to our mission, sharing that story with their guests, maybe guests themselves, they would like to contribute. I think there's a big opportunity in sharing what we are doing with a big audience of people who are guests at the hotel. And for us, it also helps us to gain more visibility and understanding of what's happening in the world. Our impact is not only focused on what happens in the camps, but it's also across borders, connecting across borders, raising awareness, showing a different story of the refugee cause than the one that is often in the newspapers, which is very negative and very focused on numbers. We are very human-focused, and by sharing stories and showing how refugees have talents and skills and are rebuilding their lives and adding value to new societies, I think that is something we could also do together with hotels.
[00:34:40] Matt Welle: Thank you. So, if you look forward 5 to 10 years, what is your hope and dream for Klabu? Like, what would you like a world with Klabu to look like?
[00:34:50] Jan van H枚vell: Well, I think our big ambition is that more and more people can have access to sports and community events through Klabu, and we have a long way to go. We have 10 clubhouses now, but there are 47 locations still waiting for a clubhouse. We have a long waiting list. We are bit by bit building clubhouses everywhere, and together, it forms Klabu, which is the club. And our goal is to become the biggest club in the world, not so much just to be big, but because there's such a big need for this. So by 2040, we would like to have one clubhouse, at least one clubhouse in every location, in every refugee camp. But it doesn't stop there because these refugee camps can be huge. And one clubhouse often, on average, caters to 5,000 people. But in Cox's Bazar in Bangladesh, for example, the camp is 1 million, consists of 1 million people. So, imagine how many clubhouses we could set up there. So, I mean, we will never be done, which in a way makes me very sad, but also makes me even more ambitious, and yeah, if we can step by step become that biggest club in the world for people who don't have one, that is our biggest goal.
[00:36:16] Matt Welle: Thank you for sharing your story. I think you're one of the most impressive people that I've met in the last year. And just the choices you make to live a different life and go against the grain, where a lot of the politics, and today, are very divisive and are blaming foreigners. And I'm just like, it doesn't help to do that, but let's find solutions instead. And when I look at the work you do day in, day out, and how you fight for change, positive change in the world, I'm very thankful that you've come into my life. So, thank you for sharing your story so openly.
[00:36:46] Jan van H枚vell: Matthijs, thank you. And, you know, I have to tell you, and I mean this also from the heart, that Klabu can only exist because of organizations like 榴莲视频, people like yourself, and many others who are part of this club. The club doesn't only consist of the people in the refugee camps, but also of all the partners and supporters. I'm wearing, you know, one of our shirts. There are people who can contribute by also wearing our club shirts. We didn't talk about that, but every clubhouse has its own shirt. The shirt is worn there, but you know, you can also buy it. We have our store here in Amsterdam, but you can also buy them online to support. And, you know, that's what makes me so excited because we are building bridges between refugees and host communities, between partners and refugee camps, between supporters, and other community members. This club, you know, consists of so many people with a shared passion. So, that is what we need, and I think that everybody could contribute in their own way. And I'm very thankful for, again, for 榴莲视频, for you, and for giving this voice to Klabu.
[00:37:59] Matt Welle: Thank you. I'll see you very soon, but I really appreciate you sharing this with my audience here.
[00:38:05] Jan van H枚vell: Yeah. No. Likewise. Thank you.
